146 - Why "Just Declutter Before You Move" Is Terrible Advice for an ND Brain!

 Summary

In this episode of Decluttering Untangled, host Heather Tingle speaks with Emma Sales about the unique challenges neurodivergent individuals face when moving house. They discuss the importance of planning, the emotional aspects of moving, and practical tips for decluttering and packing. Emma shares insights from her book, 'Unpacked Neurodivergence and Moving House,' emphasising the need for personalised strategies and the acceptance of one's own moving process. The conversation highlights the significance of creating a safe space during the transition and managing stress effectively.

In this conversation, Emma Sails shares her experiences and insights on moving, particularly from the perspective of neurodivergence. She discusses the challenges faced during her own moving day, the importance of having backup plans, and the need for clear communication and organisation. Emma emphasises the significance of creating a safe space during transitions and reflects on her past moves, highlighting the lessons learned. The discussion culminates in practical tips for a successful move.

Key  topics

Challenges of moving house with neurodivergence
Strategies for planning and decluttering
Importance of safe spaces and routines during move
Using tools like spreadsheets and labels effectively
Managing stress and overwhelm in the moving process

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Emma Sales and her book
02:00 Why moving house is especially stressful for neurodivergent individuals
03:58 Personal experiences and motivations for writing the book
07:08 Planning and organizing the move: tips for neurodivergent minds
10:11 Using visual plans and spreadsheets to aid packing
12:04 Labeling and prioritizing items for easier unpacking
14:57 Creating safe spaces and managing overwhelm during the move
17:55 Dealing with last-minute packing and unexpected challenges
22:01 Supporting neurodivergent family members during the move
26:01 Reflections on past moves and lessons learned
30:06 Final tips and encouragement for a successful move

Link to Emma Sails: 

https://navigatingneurodivergence.co.uk 

Link to Emmas Book: Unpacked: Neurodivergence and Moving House - (Amazon affiliate link)

courses.untangledbytingle.com Getting Started and Zoning Workshop

Transcript

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Heather Tingle (She/Her) (00:01.13)
Hello, Untanglers, and welcome back to another episode of Decluttering Untangled with me, your host, Heather Tingle. Today is very unusual because I've got a guest in the studio and this is because I think it's one of the subjects that we're gonna talk about today, which everyone does ask me about and everyone comes into my community in a mass panic because they need help doing this thing. And this thing we're gonna talk about today is moving house.

So if you are neurodivergent and moving house, this is gonna be especially useful for you. But if you are moving house full stop, it is also gonna be useful for you too. So the lovely person I have got sat in front of me is the fabulous Emma Sales. Now Emma Sales is from Navigating Neurodivergence and Emma has written a book. Now I discovered Emma through a mutual friend who was like, you two need to speak to each other. And we replied back, actually we've already had a chat because we found each other naturally.

Because Emma, I discovered, has written this book called Unpacked Neurodivergence and Moving House. I just thought it was such a brilliant resource for people to really kind of spell it out as an almost a bit of a blueprint, a bit of a how-to guide, a bit of a manual, but also

Emma Sails (She/Her) (01:08.13)
Moving house, your divergence and moving house, yes.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (01:28.79)
bit of storytelling in it as well about people's own experiences and it's not just yours, there's other people's as well which is really cool. And I was like, I need to speak to you, like my community needs you Emma. So hello, I've got all my list of questions and I've loft them. Right so we're going to start off with is what made you decide to write a book? Because a book is a very stressful thing to write.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (01:44.014)
Bye, thanks for having me.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (01:56.642)
Yeah, it is.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (01:58.45)
I also know that you are, not only have you moved house into your forever home, crossed, but you are also getting married shortly, which is a very stressful experience in itself. So moving house, getting married and writing a book, they're pretty stressful things. What on earth made you think that writing a book was a good idea right now?

Emma Sails (She/Her) (02:08.482)
I am.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (02:18.552)
this.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (02:25.954)
I mean ADHD probably to be honest, let's be real, but I was speaking to a coach that I was working with, an ADHD coach at the time and everything went wrong. It was about three months into the house moving process and we were looking at this house and it all fell through and went back to the square one. And the coach I was talking to basically said, just remember that when you're a divergent, moving a house is a full-time job or essentially a full-time job because it takes over everything.

And regardless of whether we feel like it should, there's so much out of our control. So many unknowns, so much chaos. It does tend to take a bit of forefront in our brains. And I had a look online and there were no books about moving houses. I mean, there's plenty of checklists for moving house. There's loads of like, this is how you pack this. This is how you do this. But not nothing about this is why it's harder with neurodivergent brains and

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (03:04.222)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (03:18.485)
in.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (03:24.994)
this is what you can do to help yourself. And so I was just like, you know what? Why not? Why not write a book? I mean, it took me a long time. It's probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my business by quite a stretch, but it is something I'm really proud of having done and it's a decision I'm glad I made at the time.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (03:37.247)
You

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (03:45.181)
brilliant and I think also having a real realistic plan of how to do it not just everything's fine and just put you organize it by this because let's face it how do you plan to move when like in theory the books would tell you I mean I haven't got books like this because I have not moved house in a long long time but how do you plan it when the books would tell you

do this this week, do that that week and you put this time aside when our ADHD brains are like, absolutely not, we're gonna wait for the last minute possible and then we're just gonna panic and go in, either go into paralysis and not do anything because we're terrified or we're gonna go, didn't you think about that yet? And then you leave it to the last minute. Like, how do you plan when you can't be consistent when you move in house?

Emma Sails (She/Her) (04:34.233)
So it's a difficult question to answer because everybody is different and that's the really important thing to acknowledge is that we have to do things our own way. And the thing that I commonly find from personal experience and from working with clients is we make a decision like brilliant, I'm moving house. I mean, there's a whole part before that where you have to decide whether or not to move and whether it's worth it and whether it's the stress, you know.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (04:39.648)
Yes.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (04:43.851)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (05:01.187)
whether you can have the conversation with the person that doesn't want to move or might not think it's as much of a priority and all of those things, which is the thing I would say for that is if you want to move house and that's the thing you want to do, it's okay to address it. It's always okay. If you're in a relationship, the other person should always be open to a conversation, even if it doesn't end up happening. It's just a conversation, isn't it? At the end of the day. I mean, that's a massive over under simplification, simplification of what it is, but.

It's just just a conversation. That's fine.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (05:31.902)
Yeah, there's like two points to it. it's the first point is planning about actually doing it as if you're going to do it or not. And then the other part is when you've decided, yes, it's actually happening. Where do you start then?

Emma Sails (She/Her) (05:38.596)
Yes.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (05:42.275)
Yeah. Yeah. And when it's actually happening, often there's a like a shiny thing thing. So you'll start it's happening. You're moving brilliant. We want to sort everything. We'll do this. We're going to declutter all of this and we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And we're to do the other and it's really exciting. And then you get into it and then stop. It's like a how much you do before your brain goes, okay, I've had enough of that now. We'll, we'll leave it for a bit. And then.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (05:55.604)
Okay.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (06:02.326)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (06:09.251)
That's when the procrastination starts and when everything gets restrained and then it's like, I had this plan and I was supposed to be up to here now and I'm not up to here now and my God, I'm failing as a person. And that is the point where you need to take a step back and just say, hang on a minute, you know your brain doesn't work like this. You know you you've been through this before. What happened then? What worked then? What didn't?

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (06:34.006)
Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (06:38.563)
being prepared to be really stressed in the couple of weeks up to moving because you've done all of the stuff. Is there anything you can do in between that shiny phase running out and the crisis mode of just before moving kicking in that will help you move forward? Is there anything that will help you feel excited? How much can you visit the new house or visit the new area or

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (06:43.958)
Hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (06:59.35)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (07:08.205)
look at photos or anything like that to kind of keep the motivation up. But if you can't, then it's okay. You can't, you know, I mean, there's an epic moving spreadsheet attached to the book, which has everything for those of us that like to be planned. I mean, for me, the way it works for me is that I, and this is what happened when I was writing the book as well, is I get excited.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (07:13.291)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (07:34.253)
And then I procrastinate and then after a while my autism, which is, you know, very friendly comes in and says, we've procrastinating enough. You need a spreadsheet for this. And then with the spreadsheet comes in and then everything gets organised and I kind of stick to it. And then kind of not. And, know, some people find it useful to have a plan and not stick to it, but essentially doing things in a way that works for you. And if it works for it to be last minute, just plan for it to be last minute, you know.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (07:34.334)
Yep. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (07:50.582)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (08:03.508)
Yeah. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (08:04.003)
Take the pressure off, forget what everyone else is telling you you should be doing and think about what's right for me and how is this gonna be easy for me or as easy as possible for me? What do I need for this to work, you know?

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (08:18.216)
And we talk about reality self and fantasy self quite a bit in this podcast. And I think that you need to totally and utterly work with reality self for this one, not the fantasy self that you're gonna be type of organized, everything's gonna be color coded, you're gonna like have the perfect move. Actually, it's not gonna work like that. You're gonna be with reality self that will leave things last minute. It is gonna get overwhelmed, it is gonna get stressed that probably.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (08:24.505)
Mmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (08:46.514)
If we're totally honest, in an ideal world, of course, would say declutter before moving. However, if you are at the point where you are actually moving, it's probably too late to do it now because you've got enough on with moving and packing. Whereas the bit where I would say you need to actually start decluttering is the bit where you're thinking about moving before you commit to anything, before you know anything's happening, do it at that point. If you've not got to the moving part yet, great. But if you're at the moving part,

Pick your battles. You've got enough battles with moving house, haven't you? Because that's hard enough. Like you said, it's a full-time job in itself.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (09:19.299)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, there's lots, there's lots of ways to declutter, which you know, you know, that's that's what you do. There's lots of ways to declutter. And it's just finding the point at which I think everyone, our moving house is such a fantastic opportunity to get rid of so much stuff. And then we have less to move. So it's less work and there's less to do at the other side. And then I'll only have the things I need at the other side and it will be perfect and everything will be great. Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (09:26.858)
Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (09:38.186)
Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (09:43.382)
Yeah.

Everyone thinks of it as like this new fresh start, but it's still you and it's still your stuff and you've still got to do the work regardless if you're moving or you're not. So moving might be an initial motivator that gets you started, but it won't keep you going at it because you're going to get stressed anyway. So just, so if you're not moving, declutter now. And then when you decide you're going to move, you've already done it. If you're going to move and you're ready to move, don't start it. Like you're going to obviously as you pack and whatever.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (09:54.542)
Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (10:14.698)
there's going to be like easy wins that you'll see like, no, that doesn't need to come with us, that can go. That's easy. Yeah, you can do that. Of course you can. So if you're gonna pack, have you got any actual tips on like, how do you like label boxes, for example, like would you like, you know, the wonderful clever idea of it, you know, I'm going to have blue labels for this room and pink labels for that room. I mean, it's a lovely idea. What would your take on that be?

Emma Sails (She/Her) (10:41.039)
first thing I would do is to look at a plan of the new house because it's all well and good packing your current house, but you need to think about where things are going to be going in the new house. It's not about where they were in the old one. So that's the first thing. And then there's multiple levels. I mean, the spreadsheet has a packing log where you just have to number the box and then it tells you on the spreadsheet where it's going. Perfect. Wonderful. That's a hyper-organized person.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (10:47.958)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (10:53.12)
That's a really good tip actually. Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (10:59.414)
Mmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (11:06.846)
That's your hyper-organised, right? Okay. Yeah. For those of us that open a spreadsheet, maybe start two bits on it and then never open it ever again.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (11:10.593)
And then on the

Emma Sails (She/Her) (11:15.427)
think, no, I'm not doing that, that's ridiculous, how could anybody possibly maintain this? Then you just use whatever you're comfortable with. mean, if you know, as long as you know what it means and the movers, like if the movers, one of the biggest things that the movers said to me, because we visited the house about four nights before moving in, this would be something I would advise for everybody, just to check we knew which furniture was going in which room.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (11:19.094)
you

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (11:39.926)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (11:43.735)
Once you know which furniture is going in which room, it's easier to decide which items are going in those rooms. If you look at your bigger things first, then you look at all your stuff and you think, right, that's going on that shelf, that shelf's in that room, you know, and it's the room, however you refer to it. And then if you need a brief summary of what's in there, I just put it on the top and on one of the sides. But then I think the way that

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (11:43.798)
you

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (11:51.318)
you

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (12:05.899)
Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (12:13.537)
It's you know how much stuff you have, you know, know, when you're going to be moving it, whether it's going to be something that if you're renting, for example, you're moving later on, you know, what's a priority, what isn't a priority. And as long as you can, if you can, if you've got people helping you move as much as of the stuff can end up where it's going when you get in the better. So it's what's going to make it easier for.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (12:16.534)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (12:23.414)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (12:37.686)
Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (12:42.147)
the moving process, how many times, if you have to write it on every side of the box, then that's okay to do. If you only write it on one side, but you have everything piled in the same way, that's also okay to do. Whatever level of organization, but you do need to put something on the boxes. I mean, literally anything. Just put something that gives you an idea. Another thing that's useful to put on is the priority. So if it's something that you're gonna need,

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (12:46.71)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (12:51.477)
Yeah.

your own flow.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (13:08.054)
Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (13:10.445)
to keep at the top and not have underneath the pile, you know, don't put stuff on top of this. We're going to need it tonight kind of thing. So yeah, the things that you need, marking a different colour or something to make them noticeable so they don't end up, you don't get there where the plates, they're underneath that pile in the corner and we can't get to them for a week, you know.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (13:16.918)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (13:31.638)
Mm.

I mean, the thing I liked about your book wasn't just about, it really does do like the before, the during and an after because obviously after part is really important. Like one of the things I would say to clients and you've got a great take on this, which I love, which is for me is pretend you're going on holiday and put your clothes in a suitcase. Like at least you've got clothes, you know where they are for the next couple of weeks, wherever. Do you want to just explain what works for you, what you thought works really well?

Emma Sails (She/Her) (14:01.057)
Yeah. So it's when you, the thing you've got to acknowledge and notice is when it stops being, I'm going to get everything done before I move. And when it starts being right, I can accept that we're not decluttering and we're not getting rid of anything and everything just needs packing. And what can I do? How do I get the last few things packed? Or even if it's still the bulk of everything, the next, yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (14:24.758)
I like, we're now at panic stations mode. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (14:26.477)
Like, right, panic stations, we've done three boxes of packing, we've got a week left, we have to pack up the rest of the house. At that point, it's make a list of all the things that you're gonna need. Think about your meals that you're gonna eat, so you know what cutlery and what plates and what pans to leave out. Think about what clothes you wanna wear so that can keep them out. Keep your space so it's advisable, or at least in most people that I've spoken to, experience.

Keep your recharge space until last. So whether it's you have some plushes that you need that help you feel safe, you've got to keep your safe space safe in your home for as long as you can before moving. That is likely to be the last thing you pack and the first thing you unpack because again, when you get to a new house.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (15:17.472)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (15:17.519)
Create a safe space as soon as you can so that you've got, you're going through so many unknowns and it's okay to need the things that regulate you. So in with your clothes and your meals, you've got to think about what you need for regulation, what anyone else in the family needs for regulation, you know. And once you've thought about those things, everything else can just go in a box, go in a bag with a label on it, with the room, you know, just when it's a just get it packed kind of scenario. And if that's where you're at.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (15:40.214)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (15:46.327)
That's fine, you know.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (15:46.346)
Yeah. So right on that box, like minute one priority, the minute we're in the house, for me, it's my kettle, my mugs, my teabags, my phone and my phone charger. Like, and me com- probably a comfy like, jammers or something to put on so I can like chill. And obviously a takeaway on speed dial as well. that would be me. so that's a really good tip. It's almost like, I think when we were talking quickly beforehand, you almost said it was like your, your not pack list.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (16:03.759)
Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (16:14.851)
Yeah, they're not packless. So if you make a list of the things not to pack, then don't pack them. And then a list of the things that you need first in the new house. And then you've got the things, because it's usually going to cross over, but they might not, not in every case, because you want the things you need first to be available first. So it's useful to put them with the things that you're not packing yet. So they don't, again, end up under a pile of other stuff.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (16:20.554)
then if you've got them like.

Yeah. Yeah. If you got those out of the way.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (16:38.228)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (16:43.341)
And it's knowing what you will need now and after to make your life as easy as possible and everyone else's life as easy as possible to make it, make you comfortable in the knowledge that you've not accidentally packed something that you need, because that's the worst thing I think when you're moving house and you realise that you needed this and actually you have no idea where it is. So if you just get, when you get to that close,

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (17:00.555)
you

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (17:08.725)
Hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (17:13.805)
That's the things just make sure you try not to. But if you do end up packing something that you shouldn't have, then don't worry. It's all right. Most things are buyable in shops and things. And if you end up replacing, I know once I moved, not this time, the time before, and my ex-husband and his dad put everything up in the loft and I couldn't get up in the loft because I was pregnant. And he...

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (17:22.538)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (17:37.43)
you

Emma Sails (She/Her) (17:39.087)
couldn't find things. There's a nice quote in the book that says it turns out they were there, he's just not very good at using his eyes to see things.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (17:45.558)
There's going be a lot of people nodding their heads at this point.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (17:50.179)
But yeah, mean, we just replaced a load of stuff. And when I found it, I was like, I wasn't going insane. Fantastic win. Now I've got two hairdryers and it was fine. You know, it's not the end of the world if you have to replace stuff. Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (17:57.194)
Yay!

Yeah. Yeah. So get your unpacked list sorted, leave those till the very last minute and then the first minute when you get to the new place. Can you just talk us through about what happened last time you moved? you were, yeah, moving day went quite wrong. want to, that's quite the good way of saying it. It went a bit wrong.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (18:16.17)
Moving day.

Hmm. It was hard. It was, it was a hard day and I, there's so many things you can, and this is a thing we do is obviously ruminating is a problem and going back and thought I could have done this and I could have done that. And what I did with those is create some resources and put them in a book because when basically on moving day itself, my fiance,

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (18:33.782)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (18:45.871)
was selling his house and we were moving in two hours and that's the day that I think of as our moving day even though I had a house, rented house separate. But I got to his house and he'd basically gone into autistic shutdown and he hadn't been able to finish packing. There was like one item left on every shelf. It was as if he'd packed a box and he hadn't had space for the thing in the box. So he just left one thing on.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (19:03.744)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (19:09.269)
Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (19:10.391)
on pretty much every shelf. So then other thing is create a box of leftover things and put all the leftover things in that box. So, you know, there's bits and bobs in it, but it's fine because that was intentional. And he hadn't been able to really communicate with the movers who were there. They didn't know what needed to be packed and what didn't. His kitchen stuff, they hadn't been told to take his kitchen stuff. So we ended up taking more space in the van and he basically just couldn't.

do very much at all. mean, I was able to give him as with with autistic shutdown, it's like give him specific instructions. I told him to go upstairs and, you know, do set things, find those things off the shelves, get his coat hangers out of his wardrobe, whatever, you know, the little things that he could do without having to think about it. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (19:53.974)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (19:58.454)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (20:01.846)
They don't need a lot of thinking. It's an instruction. Do this full stop, then do this full stop. That doesn't require any like nuance or anything. It's just a really easy command to do. And that's what you need. But for them, for you to be able to go to the movers and go, like, what do need from me? And then they need to go, help.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (20:13.571)
Yeah, absolutely.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (20:19.917)
Yeah. And they just said, can you finish packing? And I was like, okay. Okay. This is where we're at, is it? And he was just, he wasn't, I was like, what's happening? He's like, don't know what to pack. And I'm like, everything, we need to pack everything. But I don't, I'm like, it's fine. know, don't worry. And the thing with crisis mode kicking in, I was just like, right, fine. We'll do, and it was fine. I mean, the resources I've created for the book with

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (20:45.856)
Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (20:49.443)
which is the, you start moving, if you think about who you're moving with, what overwhelms them, go through your what ifs. So what if this happens, what if this happens, what if this happens, what if this happens, and create a backup plan for all of those, no matter how crazy it seems, have a backup plan. Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (20:57.558)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (21:06.742)
I mean, we're good at that. We're good at that backup plan. Like I think neurodivergent people are just amazing in a crisis simply because, well, generally, unless it's actually happening to you, like if it's happening to other people, we're much better at it. But generally, because we seem to spend our lives having plan A's and B's and C's and well, what happens if this happens? And if that happens, what do I do? And if that happens, what do I do? If you've got those plans already kind of thought out.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (21:14.241)
Well...

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (21:35.124)
then everything else becomes a lot easier to do, everything becomes easier to do with because you've got those backups. And on the day, let's face it, something is probably not going to go to plan. So how do you, what kind of plans? mean, obviously the plans that you can create are the, you know, knowing how someone might react, what people in your family or who you're moving with or you, like what's gonna help you?

Emma Sails (She/Her) (21:40.899)
Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (21:45.571)
Yes.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (22:03.252)
And also, but also like, what are you good at? So everyone's got, you know, things that they are amazing at and the things that they're you know, struggle with. So look at the struggles and then look at the, do you know what, for example, you know, my mom is really good at this. Okay, mom, you need to be in charge of X. yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (22:09.155)
Yes. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (22:19.263)
Yeah, mean allocating, if you have a schedule for the day, for moving day, or for the run up even, this person's doing this, this person's, that's her responsibility, that's his responsibility, you know, this is what needs to be communicated to X person at X time, this is what's happening, you know, how clear can you make it? How much clarity can you add to that situation? it just making the best of

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (22:24.992)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (22:36.307)
Mm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (22:48.939)
everyone, you know, I mean, my fiance is autistic, he's not ADHD, crisis mode isn't something that he has. So it's acknowledging that from that I will function amazingly in a crisis, he will go to pieces, you know, so he needs to have everything. This is where we need to be. You are safe. You are looked after, you know, and also at the bottom.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (22:56.694)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (23:05.056)
Mm-hmm. Here for them.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (23:13.77)
Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (23:15.683)
this is the reasons why we're doing this. This is what we have to gain because you have to constantly, the more stressed you are, the more you have to remind yourself of why you don't just sack it all in and walk away at the last minute. know, it's why are we doing this in the first place? And having that as a reminder can just help to jolt you out. So there's lots of things that you can do to navigate that overwhelm if it happens and just being prepared for if somebody does go into shutdown or meltdown.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (23:18.998)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (23:23.414)
I'm gonna move out.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (23:45.177)
giving them clear instructions or giving them space, having a space, like keeping a regulation space in your house until you literally last moving and the new house so that if somebody does go into a meltdown or have a meltdown, they have somewhere to go, even if it's in the car, know, when we were moving, when we were selling my fiance's old house.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (23:48.086)
Hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (24:10.179)
When viewings came, he just took all his plushies into the car and just drove around the block with his plushies while the viewings were happening, just to ground himself, just to give himself some control over what was happening. And it's wherever you can find that control.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (24:18.079)
Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (24:24.576)
And even if you're not neurodivergent, I know some people who listen to this aren't, still being aware of how to decompress and how to de-stress yourself is absolutely vital because I remember when I moved house and I was moving from a parent's home to this one, so I didn't have a lot of stuff. It wasn't a stressful process with regard to packing, for example, because I didn't take very much, because I didn't have very much then.

but I still remember it being the most stressful experience of my entire life up until that point. And I include, you know, the times where I had a breakdown at university and all that kind like, I include that it was beyond a doubt the most stressful experience. It would be even worse if I tried to do it now. Like, my word, I can't even begin to think about it, but I know the upheaval and stress I feel.

when I'm having some work done on maybe one room in my house and all the furniture and everything has to come out of that one space. If I have to deal with that with an whole house, of course it's stressful. Like you've got to work out how are you going to keep yourself, I want to say sane, but that's probably not the right word. Like how are you going to ground yourself? How are you going to take a breather to regulate so that you can think clearly because you need to be able to think. And if you are so overwhelmed that you can't think.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (25:24.153)
Yes, everywhere.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (25:48.842)
which is generally when people come into my group and go, I'm moving house in three weeks and I've got to declutter. And we go, actually, do know what you really need to do right now? You need to just pack for when you get there and just think, do you know what? There'll be some things that are easy wins, but the rest of it is you just need to concentrate on actually getting it packed and getting it moving.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (25:57.187)
What? D-glitter.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (26:07.071)
Even if you have, I mean, I know for years, I mean, I'm told, I'm saying, I mean, literally years, I was, I had some bags that I knew I had to sort and they'd moved from house to house to house to house and they never really got, but it's like, if you've got a box that's labeled, most of this will go in the charity. know, most of this will get, I can declutter this, to declutter, you know, and one of the big things is the stuff that you don't really use very often or that you're holding onto for no good reason.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (26:16.15)
So, yep, because I always do.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (26:25.819)
Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (26:36.641)
If you put a date on it when you move, we moved, we moved house. I hadn't touched this in six months. Put it in the garage. If you've not used it in 12 months, you can get rid of it without even opening it, you Yeah, honest.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (26:36.69)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (26:44.31)
Mm.

No, terrifying me. it is having a date on things is very useful as a feedback mechanism for yourself to know the level of importance of this box, because it's obviously been a delayed procrastination and there's something that is stopping you from getting excited about sorting it out. Knowing what that is, is so useful to know how to tackle it, which is really good. So.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (27:03.575)
Mmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (27:10.457)
Yes.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (27:17.002)
You've moved house 15 times. So you are now an expert in everything that could possibly happen when you go away. So your book is kind of split into three, isn't it? So the first one is your, is it your, tell me the three different parts to it.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (27:18.841)
half.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (27:22.607)
So be safe.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (27:27.108)
Hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (27:31.119)
So there's part one, which is my story of moving most recently and the coaching bit. So all the coaching tools that I used and that I created are in that part. Then part two is all of my experience of moving the other 14 times. Now, those are the 14 times I was not aware of my neurodivergence. So what I do is I go through every experience and I unpick it and look back at it on hindsight. And this is why I did this. This is what I've learned looking back. And it was quite, I mean, it was a

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (27:41.63)
Yeah. Amazing.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (27:50.72)
Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (28:00.513)
really emotionally intense experience in some parts. It was quite upsetting in parts, but it was so cathartic and to be able to go back and think, you know, I beat myself up so much for doing things this way when actually it was a coping mechanism or actually it was because of this or it was because of that. And the decisions that I made in my life and why I made them, you know, before in the before times, which is what I call it. It's so nice to be able to go back and

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (28:02.486)
I can imagine. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (28:30.191)
and validate those experiences and those decisions and understand them. So that's part two. And then part three, there's stories from 13 other collaborators. So there's 13 other experiences of moving. Cause when I started writing the book, I'm like, you know, white woman buys house and writes book about it. You know, I didn't, you know, with male partner, it's very specific. Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't want to.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (28:49.471)
Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (28:55.424)
Quite narrow. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (28:58.829)
I wanted to provide as many perspectives as I could. there's 13 other stories. So we've got a military wife, we've got someone who moved into an RV. We've got people combining households. We've got people splitting up. We've got a single people. There's all sorts of experiences in there. So it's not just my story and yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (29:14.038)
That is so useful.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (29:20.246)
It's not just one experience, is it? There will be different parts that each person can, that each person reading can take from each bit. There may be some bits that are appropriate and some that aren't, but you'll still learn something from others' experiences of what went right, what went wrong, or your own picking of if I'd have known this, you know, that kind of thing.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (29:27.917)
Yes!

Emma Sails (She/Her) (29:37.261)
Yeah. And what, what was quite interesting in reading the other collaborators is because obviously I got all the collaborators in before I wrote my part because you know, ADHD and what was interesting in is no matter how different the experience, there were some things that were a common vein and the things that were in most stories that the quotes that I could pick out that could apply to

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (29:57.014)
The common things are always.

Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (30:05.642)
most people, it was really interesting. And then again, the extremes, know, the differences as well, where some people were so incredibly organised and on top of it, and then other people just really just don't mind. Whatever goes, goes. And it was really interesting. It was really interesting. And people that I speak to, I'm happy to talk to anyone about anything, but the more stories I hear of moving.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (30:06.794)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (30:15.094)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (30:24.564)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (30:35.842)
the more glad I am really that I've done this and had this kind of as a thing, like a string to my bow now. So it's interesting. I find the way that our brains approach things so interesting. So this is quite a specific thing to get my teeth into and yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (30:38.39)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (30:41.983)
Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (30:53.014)
But it's so needed. It's really needed to be able to have knowledge of those experiences and how you can make it easy for yourself is so useful. And also like, I mean, I'd love to hear like, you one last top tip before we go. But I know one of the things that I have seen in people's experiences that I've had dealings with when people were moving was it was a chuck it in.

a box at last minute, but if it at least, because you know, it's always that random stuff that they never got around to decluttering. But even if it is just writing on the box, this is the random stuff that was in this drawer in this room, then you already kind of knowing your own head what it is. Like that makes it so much easier when you get to the other end than hunting through each kind of thing. No. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (31:40.163)
Yeah, nobody else has to understand it. As long as it gets put in the right room, nobody else has to understand what's in it other than you. you know, that's it's doing things in a way that work for you and forgetting what anyone else said. mean, yeah, it's nice to get advice and it's always good to ask for help. But things need to work in your way and need to be done in your way, because it is your house fundamentally at the end of the day, isn't it? It's your house and your family's house. So.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (31:48.126)
Exactly. Other than you. Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (32:10.214)
it is, is. I mean, yeah, there's a couple of really nice bits actually in the book where I'm like, when I wrote part two of the book and I was really upset towards the end and, my fiance just came in and he was just like looking at the garden and like, look, this is our garden furniture and look how streams down there. And this is the bit we like, and this is the bit and we've moved and both of us, it was a huge deal for both of us. And

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (32:11.018)
And it's worth it in the end.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (32:30.966)
you

Emma Sails (She/Her) (32:39.69)
It just really reminded me of how far I've come. I mean, there's a lot of times in my life I never would have expected to end up where I am. so I'm hoping that people reading my story will appreciate that and, you know, realise that it's possible, you know, to settle because, you know, it's so hard, it can be so hard as a neurodivergent person to find your place and to feel settled.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (32:50.164)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (32:57.398)
Totally.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (33:02.731)
Yeah.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (33:08.18)
Find your forever home. Yeah. And make it your own and make it yours and declutter it so that you're proud of it, which is a wonderful place to be when you get there. So let me just recap a few top tips. So first one is making sure everyone knows what jobs have got to be done at like what time. So everyone's on the same page. And if you suddenly bring in recruits at the last minute, they can just look at this information and go, right, this is what we're working on. Remembering why you're doing it. So we like, you you're saying about

Emma Sails (She/Her) (33:09.685)
Yeah.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (33:15.032)
Mm.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (33:38.218)
your partner saying about, look, we've got a garden. Like how wonderful is that? And how beautiful that is. knowing why you're doing it, labeling your boxes on more than one place, having an unpack, a non-pack list. So the things that you're leaving to the last minute, knowing how to decompress and soothe yourself and have that safe space as the last thing before you leave and the first thing when you get to the new place. Have you got any more like last a top?

Last tip for anyone listening that's right, right, okay, we're thinking about thinking about doing this. What is the last like top tip you would give people?

Emma Sails (She/Her) (34:15.361)
It sounds corny to say what will be will be, but whatever happens will happen. And you've got you probably most people listen to this will have moved at some point. Most of us have moved, you know, in our lives and you got through that. And the more experience you have of moving and the more you can think back, you know, you can handle it, you know, you can get through it, you know, you'll come out the other side and you'll work things out. So even if everything goes wrong on the day. You know, you'll be fine and.

even though it can be hard to feel that, it is really important to acknowledge that you can get through it and you will. And if it's something you want, it is definitely worth it, you know? It will, it will all be okay.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (34:56.598)
And it'll be okay in the end. It will. It will, of course it will. Okay, so that is so lovely. And I think it's a nice kind of way to end it. So if someone wants to find you and find your book, so how do they find you? How do they find your book? I will put this information in the show notes as well if you're listening.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (35:15.257)
So my book is on Amazon. So if you go on Amazon and search for unpacked, it's there. If you want to find me, then head to navigating neurodivergence.co.uk. And if you want to specific resources, navigating neurodivergence.co.uk forward slash links hyphen and hyphen resources, which I need to shorten that, but it is what it is currently.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (35:21.536)
Brilliant.

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (35:37.936)
Amazing. It works for me. We'll put those in the show notes so you don't have to remember, you don't have to start writing it all down if you're listening. worry. Emma, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you. And I really do think that this book is, well, I mean, this book was the reason why we managed to speak to each other was because I saw it and went.

Emma Sails (She/Her) (35:58.371)
Yes!

Heather Tingle (She/Her) (36:00.182)
my word, this is so needed. So thank you so much on behalf of the community that needs this information. Thank you so much. Take care. So until next time, I hope that has helped you. If you've got any questions, pop into the Facebook group. If you've got any questions for Emma, just ask and I'm sure we can get Emma into answer. And just remember that you're not alone. Be kind to yourself and keep untangling.